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SWP: their support of Sinn Fein & their left republicanism national |
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news report
 Tuesday October 29, 2002 15:26 by Geraldine
 It is news to many new members of SWP that their orgnaisation used to support SF and the IRA. And the SWP still have an un-socialist left republican position of the north. In the early 1980s the SWP supported Sinn Féin and called for a vote for Sinn Féin in elections. The SWP did this on the basis of SF/IRA being a national liberation movement. The SWPs main criticism of Sinn Fein at the time was that they were going too far down the road of elections, SWP accused SF of being "electoralist". The SWP failed to see that the IRA and SF were whipping up sectarian hatred and violence. It also exposes SWP's belief that Protestent workers are not as 'revolutionary' as Catholic workers. Thw SWP also failed to see that the Provisionals were a right wing nationalist split off. However the main problem is that the SWP have changed their position without acknowledging the wrongs of their past position. I've no problem with an organisation learning from its mistakes and changing its position after proper discussion etc. But the SWP have not done this. SWP have since embraced "electoralism", and they have ditched their support for Sinn Féin. It should also be noted that only in the past number of weeks has the "What We Stand For" column in the Socialist Worker has changed their left republican position on the north. SWP still orientate towards Catholics as opposed to Protestents, they call for a "Workers' Republic" (a typical left republican stance) In their eyes Protestent workers (like Israeli workers) are one bigoted ignorant mass of lumpens that can't be won to socialist ideas. |
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Comments (20 of 20)
Jump To Comment: 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1The ORTRKWIGO (Organisation that really knows what is going on) calls on Geraldine to immediately state what organisation/tendency she belongs to so that we can slag her off on the past misdemeanors of her organisation/tendency.
Failure to do so will mean an immediate insertion of her personlly in our database of sectarian orgainsations/tendencies which are destroying the movement by trying to take it over, making nasty comments about everybody else, occasionally talking to Labour party politicians, or other means.
Be warned.
I am not, and never have been, a member of the Sparts.
In my opinion the sparts are an ultra left cult.
"In their eyes Protestent workers (like Israeli workers) are one bigoted ignorant mass of lumpens that can't be won to socialist ideas."
This sounds odd coming from the sparts, if it is from the sparts, since i clearly remember them accusing a number of anarchists from a protestant background of being "loyalist oppressors" on the very flimsy basis that they believed that it was possible for working class prods to be intimidated by republicans.
Sparts are silly.
to follow the question on the update to the What we Stand for column in our paper, yes it was decided at our conference this year (2002) to update the column to reflect the changes in the political situation in the world today, including Northern Ireland. For example, there had been no mention of the anti-capitalist movement which has come to prominence since the demos in Seattle at the end of 1999, so a reference to our organisation playing our part within that "movement of movements" was included.
Also, the issue of immigration controls that has become an issue for some people in this country since 1997 or so was dealt with, i.e. we completely oppose immigration controls, as they are always racist.
Briefly:
The SWP had no difficulty standing with the oppressed. The NI state organised systemattic discrimination against Catholics. When they stood up to demand civil rights they were met with loyalist violence and state repression. This was backed up by the British.
Therefore the conflict was not about "two tribes" who couldn't quite hit it off but about a strategy the ruling clas used to rule and the inevitable fightback this provoked.
Those working class Catholics were right to resist. The SWP supported them. We approached the question on the basis that socialists who do not support the oppressed in their fight for their freedom are worthless opportunists, completely unable to pose an alternative to the nationalist politics of the Republicans who had leadership of the movement of resistance.
We therefore criticised the Republican Movement for politics and in particular its reliance on the armed struggle of the elite rather than class action.
When the British government sought to criminalise republicans as common criminals and take away Special Category status, despite our cristicsims of the Republicans we supported their right to political status.
I remember from personal involvement that strike action in support of the H Block hunger strikers was organised in Dublin by SWP members as well as others. It was a class question: If the authorities can get away with criminalising political acts arising from the sectarian slum of Northern politics then the ruling class stands higher and the working class lower.
(Militant, now the SP, called abstractly for a trade union enquiry to decide who was and who was not political. In other words they ducked the issue. If you don't want to commit yourself to anything call an enquiry)
It is not our argument with Republicans that has changed. It is the tactics of Republicans that have changed.
Then we argued against the armed struggle as counter productive. We called instead for a mass working class fight North and South, Catholic and Protestant, for a workers' republic free from discrimination where *ALL* workers gained.
This was the only way to convince the bulk of Protestant workers to break from loyalism.
Today the Republicans have joined the system (as Fianna Fail did before them). Our argument is not that they stand for elections, but that they base themselves on being the champions of the Catholic community rather than class politics. Hence the stuff about their Stormont ministers collaborating and indeed initiating privatisation and hiving off public services.
Their politics are therefore incapable of attacking the root of sectarianism enshrined in the Belfast Agreement.
During the years of the Cold War we used to use the slogan "Neither Washington Nor Moscow But International Socialism". With the collapse of the USSR to make the same points we need to talk of other things. That is obvious.
When the political situation changes in the North obviously the arguments necessary to promote Marxist politics in relation to there too have to be adjusted. These changes are reflected in our column in the paper.
(Not so)Observant Observer has raised a number of questions, these are the answers:
The answer for Catholic workers was immediate - protection.
We did, we do
Yep (although why are you so concerned?)
Your comments Observant are slightly funny if not a touch juvenile : 'very bad and very un-marxist'.
Why not put forward the reasons you're against the SWP position on the North and Palestine and explain a very good and marxist position that the SP, sorry you have arrived at.
From all the replies from SWPers thay dont acknowledge that their support of Sinn Féin was wrong, that's the most worrying thing!
Can they not see that SF and IRA was not the answer for the Catholic workers in the 70s and 80s?
Why did they not support the workers movement? why not promote non-sectarian working class approach to the situation in the north?
SWP recently changed their 'What We Stand For' column. Ive no problem with them changing it, but did members discuss their apparent change in Northern policy?
SWP's position on the North (and Israel/Palestine) is very bad and very un-marxist.
It's about time the SWP members had a closer look at these policies. If their members were really marxists they would have big problems with these positions.
Further to the discussion above the issue of Socialist Worker from 21st of August 1969 is available at
http://www.marxists.de/ireland/swaug69/index.htm
containing the "infamous" editorial.
The SP are not oppossed to Israeli workers. I think you may have confused us with another party on the left.
SWP what we stand for on web site:
http://www.swp.ie/html/oppression.htm
"Northern Ireland
In Northern Ireland we argue that there is far more uniting Catholic workers and Protestant workers than dividing them. The all party government that has come out of thee Belfast agreement is implementing an economic agenda of closing hospitals and cutting back on public spending and workers should unite to oppose it.
But working class unity can only be built permanently if Protestant turn their back on loyalist ideas, which promote their superiority, and Catholic workers reject the idea of a 'pan-nationalist alliance'. We fight for a 32 county socialist Ireland that can only be arise out of a challenge against both Irish states."
A collection of SWP articles and statements on Northern Ireland including the 1969 issue referred to above are at:
http://www.marxists.de/ireland/index.htm
The Sparts normal claim about the SWP is that they didn't call for the troops to be withdrawn when they were first sent in. On this they are actually correct. I have even seen Sparts berating a confused and terrified SWPer with an actual copy of Socialist Worker from the time which argued that the soldiers provided a necessary "breathing space".
As long as they stick to that version of events they are actually correct. Although really, who fucking cares?
Sometimes they get impatient with irritating details and transplant their accusations to the present day.
no more local elections, just reinstate Master Davy Trimble(bunty) on full MLA pay.
Master Davy trimble deserves to earn over £60,000 a year and is entitled to all the perks a person of his social status, class and privilleged upbringing deserves, let us not forget master Davy trimble has been a very good schoolboy/prefect, his pillar of society buisnessman daddy spent thousands paying for his precious lickle lord flauntelroy son to go to the top schools and universities. Master Davy is entitled to sip champers and eat caviar, whilst being driven about in his bullet/bomb proof limosine. Master Davy deserves to be reinstated into his post as first minister without holding more elections.
why are the sparts and the sp so opposed to Isreali workers? Why not workers in Nuclear power plants in England who poison other Enlish and Irish workers? Why not workers in US and French arms companies that produce weapons that kill millions of poor people all over the world? Are the hypocrites? or eurocentric? or just clueless?
Well done Geraldine you have just proved that no group can be all bad. Even the SWP had one redeeming quality (but then they went and changed it!)
Geraldine is a Spart, they come out with this shite and other gems at all SWP meetings. Like that they claim the SWP dont call for a British withdrawl, when it is in the 'what they stand for' column in the paper they are waving about.
And Justin, great to see it didn't take SF too long after the election to turn on the SWP and other groups that supported you during genuine dark days. Remember section 31, the H-Blocks/internment and the hunger strikes, when you actually needed and were thankful for their support? You pompus arse. Don't make light of people who supported your movement at risk to themselves and their careers when you werent a sexy party and stood for something. The way you are carrying on you may need them again.
Garaldine here has blatantly just read "The struggle for socialism today" by Peter Hadden. And even though what she says is true theres not single bit of information in there that people dont know. So no Garaldine you havint hit the jackpot nor have you stubled apon information those on the left did not already know. So cumon dont waist our time.
called for a vote for Sinn Féin in elections
-- the bastards!!
Are we beginning to recover from the SWP's decision not to back us without reservation. The years of toil to claw back what we lost have been long and arduous. The bitter tears and rending of clothes that took place when the SWP dropped us a line saying they thought we were completely wrong haunts us still. Truthfully Adams has said 'Those were the darkest days, when there seemed no hope, when all was futile and wasted effort'. Still, we're showing signs of recovery.